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Interview With Gene Palensar: Part 2 of 2
Gene Palensar is a full-time professional Blackjack player and a living legend. Here is the conclusion of Eric Nielsen's Interview with Gene Palensar -- the last link to Kenny Uston's Blackjack Teams.
EN: You've known Jerry Patterson for some time. How did you meet? What were the circumstances?
GP: When I first started playing Blackjack, I wanted to get as many opinions as possible. I saw his book. I got his number and called. I asked him about team play. This was before I hooked up with Ken. At the time, Jerry said he was moving away from card counting ... that he was involved now in something called TARGET 21. He told me it was a winning Blackjack method that could be mastered by average players much easier than card counting. This was when Jerry first introduced TARGET 21. I was one of the first to buy the program... I was about 21 at the time. It was around $295.
EN: It's still the same price. Hasn't changed after all these years. I believe you've stayed in touch with Jerry over the years. Is that true?
GP: Oh sure! We've spoken frequently. I've called to ask questions and sometimes just to see what's new. I called recently to let him know I was back playing in Atlantic City. Jerry's a good guy. He's always been an honest guy. When you meet Jerry, you can tell he's an honest guy. Some of these other characters that are in the game ... they're ... well, in my opinion, they're just a bunch of scam artists. I know of one guy who tells the story of going into a casino with his 50-man team and winning a million in one weekend. This is outrageous. Just not true. How can anyone make such a claim? Jerry doesn't make these ridiculous claims. He simply states that with his TARGET 21, he gives the player an advantage ... which he does. And I agree with him. I think that for anyone looking to make some money in the casino, this is the about the best way to go. It really is.
EN: Gene, Blackjack conditions are quite a bit different today as compared to ten or twelve years ago. How have you seen things change during this period? GP: Well, in Atlantic City, ten years ago things were much better. They've gotten progressively worse. Some rule changes have also been made. Overall, conditions in Atlantic City right now are pretty poor.
EN: What do you think contributes to these bad conditions? Shuffles? Full tables?
GP: Yes. The shuffles are a big part of it. Different casinos have different shuffles. I've been told by one of my insider friends that the casinos are using computer experts working with different shuffling techniques to maximize their profits. And it's obvious. Take a look around for evidence of players winning ... there is none (laughing). These casinos just continue to increase their profits.
EN: But Gene, even with such tough conditions, you're able to beat them.
GP: On occasion ... yes, I can beat them. But it's very, very difficult to beat these people. You must use everything to your advantage. You've got your card-counting. You've got TARGET 21. Together or alone, you've got to use these techniques when and where they are most appropriate. You've got to assess the situation, and when an opportunity presents itself, you've got to exploit it with the best means possible.
EN: Do you think in today's game you can beat Blackjack with card counting techniques alone?
GP: That's a tough one. I would say probably not. Sure, there are some Cinderella stories about big wins. There was a guy who reported winning a hundred thousand playing the Red Seven System. Why not Black Ace? Why not King of Clubs or whatever? What's the point? These stories insinuate that anyone can go in and win a hundred thousand overnight using one of these card-counting techniques. No, I don't think you can win consistently in the eight-deck Atlantic City games using card-counting techniques alone. You've got to use other options.
EN: Card-counting purists like Arnold Snyder and Stanford Wong still teach card counting in its traditional form ... the way it was taught years ago. In their publications, they vehemently deny the credibility of all other methods ... as being bogus. What do you think of their positions? GP: Well, you have to remember that these theoreticians ... most of them never play a hand of Blackjack ... at least as far as I've seen. These characters think that because you have a "theoretical" advantage over the casinos that you can actually beat them. It's not true. I equate "theoretical Blackjack" to "theoretical Marxism." Looks good on paper, but it doesn't work! These guys try to talk about how Jerry's systems are bogus. They're not bogus! I see TARGET 21 tables in the casinos. And I exploit them myself. I use it. Even Ken talked about how inadequate shuffling creates clumping and how card counting is a failure in those situations. Ken agreed with Jerry. In order to win, you need physical production of tens ... on the table ... not a "theoretical" advantage. You must get a winning hand. And if you're not receiving winning hands, you're going to lose. You're going to risk your entire bankroll on a theoretical advantage ... which is just never going to produce. EN: What strategies work best to exploit today's games? GP: Well, it depends. You need to use both. I employ TARGET 21 techniques with card counting. If I don't have a dealer-breaking table, I am not going to bet up into a theoretical advantage. I'm not going to put up $500 into a theoretical edge in a game where I'm physically losing. That's it. Other card counters tell me I'm crazy. I'll be flat betting $25 in favorable counts. I'm just not going to fall into that trap. I've lost too many times doing it. Now, there are different situations. In the multiple-deck shoe games, you must employ these TARGET 21 techniques to win. In the single-deck games, well that's different ... because you are going to get those statistical tens. But we're not playing in single-deck games here in Atlantic City. We're playing in six- and eight-deck games where anything can happen.
EN: You know, Gene, Jerry calls you the Lone Wolf. Because you're in here playing on your own ... a Lone Wolf professional. What are your thoughts concerning team play versus individual play in today's game?
GP: Actually, I'd rather play with a team. If you have good players and honest players, you can make a lot of money. But those are big ifs. So I play alone.
EN: What are the big advantages to team play? Getting in more hours? Sharing a bank? ... ?
GP: Sharing a bank is one. Covering more tables ... and seeing more opportunities. I do this on a limited basis now. Other card counters who know me will sometimes signal me into a good game. And I will sometimes do the same for them. I've won a few hundred in the past couple of weeks just with friends calling me into games. I was just standing around (laughing) being a dummy. They called me in and we shared some good shoes. I'm always grateful.
EN: How many other pros do you see operating here in Atlantic City?
GP: I personally know two other full-timers and three or four part-timers. I see them regularly.
EN: How about heat? Do you get much? How do you handle it?
GP: Well, I've gotten a little bit at Resorts lately. I'm blown out on a couple of shifts. The graveyard shift ... I'm out of there. I've exploited that a little too much. Other than that, I don't get much.
EN: When you do get heat, what do they do?
GP: Basically, they point fingers at me. They point me out to the pit personnel. They make gestures and whisper that you're a professional player. They'll try to stop your complementaries.
EN: Making you feel uncomfortable ...
GP: Right. They'll follow you around. The best thing that I've found is don't be intimidated by these people. This is what they like! They like to feel like they're the second coming of Sherlock Holmes. They've found a professional within their midst ... someone with brains ... someone who's not just an average gambler. Do not be intimidated. Never be intimidated. If you show that you're intimidated, they'll never let up on you. They'll continually hound you. I know ... by experience.
EN: Gene, have you ever tried physical disguises in the casino? Hiding your identity?
GP: Yeah, a couple of times. But no, I've never really used them. I've thought about them. But, no. I'll use the Big Player method to get my bets down. The casinos don't catch on to this very quickly. I'll use a BP to jump in on a back count. Lots of counters claim they need disguises. I think they're just caught up on themselves.
EN: Ever been barred here in Atlantic City?
GP: No. You can't be barred in Atlantic City. I was thrown out of Resorts for twenty-four hours once. ... Just that one time at the Imperial Palace in Vegas. That's the only time.
EN: I know you play the comp game pretty well. Comments?
GP: Sure. The thing to do is to get in good with the Host. If the Host sees that you're a frequent player, you'll be well taken care of. The Host can override any of the pit personnel. Pit personnel tend to be stingy. They seem to like to hold comps for their friends and favorites, regardless of their action.
EN: As we sit here talking, I understand you're in the middle of accomplishing a specific goal ... sort of like a team objective ... but on your own. Will you share your general goal with us, along with the strategies you've chosen to achieve it?
GP: My strategies include using everything I can use ... card counting combined with TARGET 21 ... to reach my objective. Then get completely out of the game.
EN: So this is going to do it for you?
GP: Well, yes ... for a while anyway. Eventually, you do get burned out. Eventually, you get to the point where you don't want to play the game anymore. And you go through periods of losing ... especially with pure card counting. There are lots of factors outside of the game itself. There are the emotions and feelings. Nobody can play perfectly all of the time. Some full-time players never learn to master the emotions and self-destruct. This is why I say TARGET 21 is so good for the majority of players. They can come in on weekends and win a few bucks for themselves. It teaches discipline ... money management ... common sense ... and should be used by most players. And, of course, if a player wants to use it for professional play, then it can be taken to a higher level. I strongly believe TARGET 21 is terrific for most players ... I really do.
EN: Your objective ... when did you start working on this particular goal?
GP: I started on my birthday. I was in a bookstore looking for the book, "The Wealth of Nations," an economics book written in the nineteenth century. I happened to walk by the gaming section and saw Uston's book, " Ken Uston on Blackjack - The Five Million Dollar Man Tells All." I knew that Ken had written about me in the book. So I leafed through it. I didn't like what I read because a lot of it was misinformation. For some reason, this incident sort of called me to get back into play.
EN: Fate?
GP: I don't know. Fate? Maybe Ken's ghost? Whatever it was, I'm convinced it was a sign. I started to practice . . . get back into playing shape. I knew I had to get back into the casino ... to get winning again ... to make another go at it.
EN: You had an adequate bank?
GP: Oh yeah ... you need a sizable bank. I was all set.
EN: How long have you been at it now?
GP: About seven months now. I've been living down here five to seven days at a stretch ... all on the casinos mind you. Complimentary rooms, complimentary gourmet meals, expensive wine - King Louis XIII Cognac from the Trop at $75 a shot!
EN: (Laughing) How has your weight been doing?
GP: Fine! Actually, pretty good. I spend a lot of time walking. There aren't very many solid winning opportunities, so I've got to keep moving around to find them. Really, things are good. If you like life on the road. I get to meet a lot of interesting people, live like a king for free herein Atlantic City and make a few bucks beating the casinos at their own game.
EN: You've been at it now for seven months. How close are you to achieving your goal? Percentage-wise, how far along are you?
GP: Percentage-wise, not too good. It's been tough. I've had a few setbacks. Personal situations out of my control. But I am making progress in a positive direction.
EN: Do you have a projected time in mind to finish?
GP: (Laughing) Well, either I'll make it or I'll go broke! Either one.
EN: But for seven months you've been making your living with Blackjack?
GP: Oh yeah. I've covered all of my personal living expenses, travel expenses, those unexpected setback expenses AND I've managed to chip away at my "nest egg" objective ... although that's the part that's been slow. I'm really pretty good though. It's not easy. But I'm pretty good. I'm hanging in. Believe me, it's not easy here in Atlantic City. If there were better games here, I'd be further ahead.
EN: Going back to Ken Uston's days, what was the longest team play you remember?
GP: Just the ones written about. They ran for several months.
EN: Gene, many of our Network members have aspirations of becoming full-time professionals just like yourself. What parting words of wisdom do you have for us?
GP: If they really want to become full-time professionals at this game, they must be determined. Determination is key. Ninety percent of the game is mental. You have to have a good mental attitude going into these places. You have to remember, in these casinos there are no windows, there are no clocks ... they're very depressing. And when you go into a losing streak, you become more depressed. So you have to know when to leave, when to take your break, when to get a little sunshine, when to revitalize yourself and when to go back in again. But determination is the key to success in any of these games. If you don't have a set goal before you start, then don't even bother.
EN: One last thing before we finish up. Recently there have been a number of professional players who have taken their battles to court. Tony Campione was awarded a huge amount of money from the Trop. Tommy Hyland is in the process of suing every casino in North America. They claim to be trying to force the casinos to let them play without the threat of being barred ... and to give them a fair game without preferential shuffling. Of course, this will all take years to play out. What are your thoughts regarding these actions? Do you think this will ultimately help us? Hinder us? What do you think?
GP: If anything, it will probably hurt things. I believe Tommy Hyland is simply trying to take a fast track to making a name for himself ... fame and fortune through lots of publicity. I don't think he's sincere about creating a fair game for the public. He's just an opportunist. You can go back to 1980 when Ken Uston took his case to court to allow card counters to play in Atlantic City. He won. But I find that players get more heat in Atlantic City than in Vegas because of that ruling. And I think that's why we have all shoe games and poor conditions in Atlantic City ... because they can't bar players. It's very hard for them to bar a player in Vegas. I played there consistently for two months without being barred ... except that one time. And that was with a variation spread ... with a Big Player ... between $25 and $500 and sometimes up to $1,000 ... two hands of $500. Ultimately, the lawsuit made the game worse in Atlantic City. Sure, they can't bar you. But they can harass you, intimidate you, and the game has been very, very difficult ever since. So I think these actions will make things worse. I think they ought to leave things alone and try to play on their abilities instead of making a fast buck with legal action. But if they do, more power to them. But it's not going to help us. That's for sure.
EN: Gene, that's going to do it. We've covered just about everything. Do you have anything you'd like to add?
GP: Yes. I'd like to mention again that Jerry has been consistent. He's still here after all these years. He's not a fly-by-night type of guy like some of these guys. He's not like these Snyders and Wongs who never play. Well, I guess Wong used to play, but not much anymore. These guys have way too much to say. They're just in it for the marketing bucks. They don't offer very much of value. These are the "purists," the "traditionalists." Jerry is "real-world."
EN: Well, that's it Gene. On behalf of all blackjack players reading this interview, I extend infinite thanks and wish you the best of luck in quickly reaching your goal. We'll stay in touch.
Editor's Note: If you would like an information package describing the TARGET 21 Course (in existence since 1982 with over 5000 users), email Fletch with your snail mail address and she'll send it right out to you.
Eric Nielsen is a key associate of Jerry Patterson.
Jerry Patterson, an internationally known gaming author, player, and instructor, is the author of five gaming books. The two most popular are Casino Gambling and Blackjack: A Winner’s Handbook. Either can be purchased on amazon.com or at Jerry’s Web Site: www.casinogamblingedge.com